Book of Scandal- The Ramsey Elders (The Ramsey Series 10)

The Meaning of Friendship
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promimtheloga.gq/wid-donde-conocer-mas.php She was about to join Mick when she felt a hand cup her elbow. Turning, her lips parted as she looked way up to find Fernando Ramsey at her side. County glanced across her shoulder. Quest says her doctor may put her on a few weeks bed rest. She shivered beneath her quarter length jacket as though her spine had been kissed by a freezing breeze.

Fernando smiled and Contessa found herself returning the sentiment in reaction to the way his mesmerizing eyes crinkled at the corners. County smoothed one hand across the sleeve of her jacket. Broad shoulders rose in a slow shrug as Fernando stepped closer. County thought, shocked by a stab of something scandalous that stirred someplace unmentionable.

Again, he stepped closer. The scent of his cologne enveloped her and County swallowed as though the action would do something to diminish it. This man was beautifully overwhelming and so very tempting. What harm could talking do? The trip was just so intense and the day is so refreshing. Do we need to get another car for you? Stop worrying. I promise. County accepted the purse, blew a kiss to Mick and stood.

She took in the sight of Fernando standing a few feet away. That word and that man were clearly a mixed match, but she was far too intrigued to turn back. Book excerpt reprinted by permission of the author, AlTonya Washington. Do not reproduce, copy or use without the author's written permission. This excerpt is used for promotional purposes only.

Meet the Author AlTonya Washington has been a romance novelist for 14 years. AlTonya is a mom and works as a College Reference Librarian. AlTonya Washington has been a romance novelist for 14 years. BPM: What made you want to become a writer? I decided to become a writer the summer after I graduated college. I still enjoyed the stories, but I craved seeing characters that looked like me. How long have you been writing? I penned my first story in the summer of I listen to them more which has enabled me to create some pretty unforgettable people.

BPM: Do you view writing as a kind of spiritual practice? Whatever is going on around me or in my life, writing creates this…bubble that protects me from all the angst. Then, it rejuvenates and inspires to give me the strength to go and face the angst. BPM: How has writing impacted your life? I continually evolve as a more thoughtful person, more observant, more detail-oriented and definitely more focused! BPM: What was one of the most surprising things you learned in creating your books?

BPM: Where do you see yourself as a writer in five years? Five years…Wow…lots of changes. I pray they will be wonderful ones. My best guy will be in college I hope. My biggest personal goal though, is to be writing full time. I hope to make this a reality before 5 years, but definitely by then. BPM: How do you find or make time to write? I HAVE to write. On the weekends, I usually sit down to write times a day and put in hrs per session. Are you a plotter or a pantster? I begin each writing project by taking a wealth of notes and gathering tons of research about the places and topics I plan to cover in any given story.

BPM: How did you choose the genre you write in? I think the romance genre chose me. The Church is the people inside the building. What kind of house will you build for me? Or where will my resting place be? Has not my hand made all these things? The Tithe goes to the Pastors and is used to pay their salaries, maintain the building, and so forth.

This violates several scriptures. Nor can Tithes be used to maintain the building, support His program, or pay for air conditioning. It was to go to the Levites as their pay. Neh And the firstfruits were NOT the Tithe. Isaiah is also part of the Old Covenant. God has given us a New Covenant. The Old Covenant does not apply. Heb For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

Galatians Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Galatians You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. And whoever places themselves in obedience to the law of the Old Covenant must obey the each and every law, not just one.

James For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Instead, we have a Covenant based on faith.

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Obedience has nothing to do with it. Ephesians For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. Romans Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Galatians But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

But they must have been pretty big homes because at Pentecost were gathered together in one place for prayer. I disagree with Wes on other issues. The New Testament is quite clear that those who preach the gospel are to get their living from it. It may not be directly from the congregation they are serving but Paul himself pointed out that he being a tentmaker was an exception. God appointed some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors, teachers…. Each member has their gift and is to use it to build up the body.

Just because someone gets their living from their gift does not make it wrong. The Levites got their share from the altar. This is a connection Paul points out to justify pastoral compensation. Peter, Timothy and Titus, even Paul at times, got their living from the gospel.

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And this came from the offerings of His people. Secondly, If obedience to the Word is not evidence of faith, then what is? Faith without works is dead, being by itself alone. Obedience from the heart was always a result of faith, in both testaments. The bare works in the Old Testament did not justify anyone. Old Testament people who believed God, acted in faith and did stuff.

They prayed, they fasted, they sacrificed animals. God sees the heart. Christ will sort it out in the end. The Old Testament is based on grace as well as the New. God was not obligated to reveal Himself and force us to face the ugly truth about ourselves. He did not have to give a promise to Adam and Eve. He did not have to punish them in the way He did. He could have righteously zapped them then and there and be done with it.

He did not have to promise man a Saviour. To be our schoolmaster. And yet there were those who sought him during the Old Testament time however imperfectly and He counted their faith as righteousness. That should give us immense hope as we fail in the same ways as they did. As Hebrews points out their examples of overcoming faith to our current generation. Yes the ceremonial law was fulfilled in Christ. Sure, we no longer sacrifice animals. Sure we no longer circumcise on the 8th day. Many things that pointed to Christ have been fulfilled in Him.

But to toss aside the whole Old Testament as a bunch of rubbish is wrong. It is His love letter to us to draw us closer to His Son. To remove the Old Testament from the New is to strip it of the gospel. Faith itself is a gift of God, not of ourselves lest anyone should boast. Our hearts are naturally at emnity with God. Dead in trespasses and sin, as Paul writes. Unless God intervenes and breathes on our dead bones.

He gave faith to Old Testament people and He does that today. The size of the homes had nothing to do with it. Col clearly says that the body of Christ is the Church. The Church is not a pile of wood and stone that will be knocked down someday. The needs of the Church is not air conditioning or soft seats. The needs of the Church are things like food, clothing, a place to sleep, clean water. The Bible does say those who preach the Gospel should earn their living from the Gospel 1 Cor But the Tithe has nothing to do with that because the Tithe has ended at the Cross.

Since Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin Rom , he could not receive Tithes. Since he said that those who preach the gospel should earn a living from it, and he could not collect Tithes, he obviously was not talking about Tithes. To do so would simply be telling the people to NOT pay him or any other gospel preacher who was not a Levite.

Your next point seems to be that we must obey. This does not say we must obey, but simply that we must believe in Jesus. And what did Jesus do? Jesus said what he did himself. This is exactly what happened.

1. Christians Are Not Under the Law

He fulfilled it for us because we cannot do so. The law is still there. It is eternal. But Christ is the end of the law Romans Therefore, if we believe in Christ as it says to do in John , we will let Him fulfill the law on our behalf, then die in our place, and rise again to give us new life. Then we are free — free to do good works.

It is not us doing it, it is God living in us, using us to do His work. The Old Covenant is definitely not based on grace. As Paul said, does this mean that the law is bad, no but that the law does not lead to righteousness, it leads to death. But you seem to conclude by accusing me of what you yourself are doing. It seems to me that you have everything mixed up. You seem to believe that the Old Covenant is based on grace and the New Covenant is based on obedience. You seem to believe that the Tithe which was never money must go to support the Church another non-Biblical use.

You seem to believe that because I say we are no longer under the Old Covenant that I toss it aside. You seem to believe that I make faith a little thing that comes naturally. I agree with you that it is very difficult and that we are naturally at enmity with God. Many people would rather follow the law than believe that Christ and only Christ fulfilled it for us. I also agree with you that God gave grace to us since the beginning of time. But the Old Covenant was not based on grace.

Olivia wrote: It is His love letter to us to draw us closer to His Son. After all, he wrote this not us. Besides, the Law was never given to a Gentile. How can the Law be your schoolmaster when it was never written to you to start with? Only Jews were under the Law and Paul made this clear in Galatians 3.

Christ redeemed us us who? If both Jew and Gentile were under the law why would Paul write stating that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles instead of US? The tithe was NOT taken to the Temple. Then the Levites took a tenth of the tithe to the Temple for the priests. Nehemiah Are you aware that the priests and Levites only worked at the Temple about two weeks per year, on a rotational basis? See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

The priests were also supported by offerings, not just a tenth of the tithe. The pastor wants to exercise his right to be paid while that same pastor wants the others to give up their right to keep their money. Hello, I tithed for 30 years expecting a windfall blessing, giving more than I could afford on many occasisons, giving on gross and net income. The result was two bankruptcies. And I was heading to a third one, until I found the truth about tithing. Let me add some more to your information. I put together a study for people to examine tithing and do their own research.

Would you agree that expecting something in return for giving to God and others is the wrong attitude to have? Churches often abuse Malachi , Matthew , Luke , 2 Cor , etc to show that God gives lots of money to those who give lots of money. Frank heard it most of his life. So did I. I think most people who currently or used to Tithe heard this sort of message. Sure, those of us who have stopped Tithing have done so partly because we learned that giving to get is the wrong motivation.

But many Churches still run on greed, not faith. I believe giving is taught in the NT after the cross — giving cheerfully for God loves a cheerful giver and giving generously, he who sows generously will also reap generously. Tithing was never brought up. Great article. Blessings good post and I wish more pastors would really look at this issue more unfortunately I believe its due to fear of losing their own income. The water has gotten so muddied up in the body of Christ today when it comes to money and I know of so many people that will never EVER believe that the tithe was ever related to agriculture because they have received increase in their life so they identify that as God keeping his word even though the Bible says that God is faithful even when we are not, why should I study to show myself approved when my Pastor does that for me????????

I do not know of any indiviual in their right mind that does not want to eat well, sleep well, have a nice home, car, clothes, quality education for their children and to also have enough money to help their friends and immediate family, Jesus was very clear about the warning of being on watch for false prophets and how so many would be decieved as well as how difficult it would be for rich people to enter into heaven, these are no coincidences, all of the uproar in the church today about money will only continue to manifest itself as more and more believers continue to allow themselves to be taught without studying the word and asking God to show them the truth about this principle.

Jesus has taken the curse away Galatians Instead, we have new, spiritual blessings Matthew , Luke Malachi does not apply because it was given to the Jews of the Old Covenant. I believe the Church has given up its love for God for love of money. They twist and distort the Bible to get money for things they do not need. And yes, I do believe God is merciful. I believe God wants for us to seek after Him and read the Bible ourselves to know what it says. God wants to lead us; He does not want any Pastor to take His place. He wished that they would go all the way on themselves and just cut the whole thing off!!

Circumcision just like the Old Testament Tithe was never even one of the Ten Commandments, yet many preachers today love to elevate it to such status for their own benefit. I entered this debate some time ago not because I agreed or disagreed with the views presented. I can make a Biblical case for either side. And I chose to show why tithing can be supported by the Old and New testament scriptures.

My big concern was the violence with with the non tithers trashed those who do tithe. You are destroying your brother for whom Christ died. If you feel someone is in oppostion to a Biblical view you are to correct gently. Instead you are causing fellow pilgrims to stumble. By their own Master they stand or fall. And what does it prove? But to club someone into submission to your particular view by de facto excommunicating them, what does that prove? I feel Paul Williams presented his view clearly and without animosity. It would have been best if we all had followed his example.

This is a REAL danger, and the Bible says that they risk losing everything in their attempt to do it themselves. It another Tower of Babel, an attempt to earn our way to Heaven. This may be violent, but it is the truth. It is a warning to turn away from false doctrine, to compare what people say with what the Bible says, and above all, to let yourself be lead by God, not a man in a suit standing behind a pulpit on Sunday morning.

What if there is no motive to obey, or obtain salvation to their giving, but a simple experience of joy and grattitude for what God has done in their life? And also we seem to be ignoring the fact that God is the only one who knows the heart. Exposing the biblical truth should not be the basis to attack the motives of people who may do something, of course with the understanding that by their fruits ye shall know them. Although there is abuse of the word and incorrect teaching, let those who give in any way, shape or form, as God impresses them; whether in the form of a percentage, or on any other format, be a relational experience with the Saviour of mankind from our filthy sinful nature.

I believe that the Church is not a building full of people who meet with God. If you choose to give a certain amount to a certain place, that is exactly what the Bible tells you to do. Many Church es do so. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Over and over, the Bible tells us to judge others. How else will we know who is the false prophet? How else will we keep from being deceived?

Hold on to the good. Tithing is not only wrong for the New Testament believer, and none of the Apostles taught believers to tithe; but now, for years churches have discriminated in the choosing of deacons, by whether they tithed or not. I was excluded, in a conversation, because I believed that tithing was an old testament law and was not carried over to New Testament believers. So positions of service in many churches are based on whether you are a tither or not. However, I do believe that we should give generously as the Apostles taught, that God love a cheerful giver.

We know circumcision and the maintaining of the sacrificial law to justify oneself before God is wrong, as those things cannot justify, and they were clearly and specifically mentioned as having been fulfilled in Christ in the epistles. The first mention of tithing came before the law, before Moses, before circumcision. Abraham gave a tenth of all his spoil to Melchizadek. Melchizadek is a type of Christ. How this is understood is pivotal to what position one comes to on tithing as post resurrection believers. Tithing is never tied to the covenant of circumcision or animal sacrifices or feast days in the New Testament nor is it ever criticised by Jesus or the apostles.

To elevate it to that position when the scriptures do not emphasize it that way is inappropriate. The one time Jesus criticized the Pharisees in relation to tithing was not because of tithing in itself but because they were so caught up in it they ignored simple mercy to others.

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Book of Scandal promises just what its title implies. Discover where the treachery, passion and mysteries all began for the Ramseys. Die-hard fans of the series. AlTonya Washington has been a published romance novelist for 6 years. Her novel Finding Love Again won the Romantic Times Reviewer's Choice Award for .

That statement is sufficiently clear to show their practice of tithing was not being criticized in itself, but they neglected the true heart of the law to love their neighbor as themselves. To love our neighbors as ourselves is still considered valid practice in our day. The lines are not so clear cut.

That perspective is taught no where in the New Testament. Paul himself said some cannot eat meat sacrificed to idols without defiling their consciences, others can. My point is there is a biblical line of reasoning to support either position.

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Sure we are to hold our own convictions and seek to persude others from the scriptures if we feel it needs to be done. This is why I entered the fray. No individual has the right to declare someone an unbeliever. So it takes a huge amount of discernment to determine where someone is in their walk. I do not believe in apostolic sucession and suspect you do not either, and for individuals on this forum to take the right of ex communication upon themselves is presumptious.

If someone is caught in sin, as you believe tithing is, then you are to restore them gently, looking to yourself, but not to insist they castrate themselves right off the bat. There are procedures in place following Matthew 18 to deal with church discipline and ex communication. The other thing I find disconcerting is that there is a great eagerness on some to assume they can read minds.

I assume you are reasonable and have a clear conscience before God in how you order your giving. It is a personal act of worship. Whatever you put into the offering plate is only a token of your heart. I assume you have reasoned your position from the scriptures and give Biblical weight to each part of your theology.

That to you somethings are far more important than your theology of tithing. Not that convictions on specific issues are unimportant. Jesus should consume our hearts. We should love Him more than anything. We are such continual debtors to His mercy and owe Him everything. Some doctrines are clearer than others, some are determined only by comparing scripture with scripture, such as the Trinity.

And like the Trinity some doctrines may take time and much careful study over many years to solidify. Finally the arguments many of the forum participants bring against tithing can be better reasoned. I feel many of the texts used by forum members were wrenched from their contexts and plastered onto things they do not belong to. That seeming disrespect for scripture really bothers me. So a possible line of reasoning can go like this. I believe the practice of tithing is no longer valid in our current times because Melchizadek was a type of Christ.

Abraham was looking forward to Christ and showed his devotion to Christ and His future sacrifice by givng an offering. Or we could say the purpose of the tithe was to provide for the Levites as they had no portion in the land but were scattered within it. The Levites no longer exist and so the tithe is no longer needed for their upkeep. The New Testament now says those who steal should steal no longer but work so that they may be able to share with others in need.

On the other hand in the support of the tithe, we may say that since Melchizadek was a type of Christ and Abraham is our spiritual father since we have the faith of Abraham we are to follow his axample because unlike circumcision his tithing action was not replaced by something else. So in tithing we are giving to Christ because of His deliverance. The duties of the Levites, devoting themselves to the word of God and prayer, is now the job of pastors or teaching elders and so tithing is the means God uses for their support.

In either case, those who preach the gospel are to get their living from the gospel. A non tither can just as easily fall into the rut of self justification as can a tither. We must allow scripture to search us as our hearts are so prone to self deception. One practical implication is this. It speaks really poorly of us as the people of God to see our ministers, the faithful ones, not the flashy TV guys, who labor in the word, who pour their lives into ours, who groan with us in our struggles, to be paid barely enough to keep it all together. We are to esteem them highly because of their work and pray for them.

We are not to muzzle them while they are threshing out the grain. We are to obey the scriptures in providing for them. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him, but he offered the goods to Abram. It would normally have been the custom that the victor owns the spoils, but normally the spoils would have belonged to the enemy.

Russell Earl Kelly, pages Genesis KJV 22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, 23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: 24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion. Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abram also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom. But the king of Sodam offered that Abram could keep the goods for himself.

Abram declined the offer.

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JamesL : Fine episode but I liked 2 and 3 more. Twisting of scriptures for personal gain have reached unprecedented heights and therefore this debate is most welcome. Much of my riding is rural, and a good example of that is the beautiful Slocan Valley. The co-investment fund advances housing priorities that matter to all Canadians by prioritizing projects that go above and beyond mandatory requirements for affordability, energy efficiency and accessibility. It was not possible to bring Paul's work in Asia Minor into accordance with the facts of history on the supposition that an important part of that work was devoted to a district in the northern part of the peninsula, called Galatia. Tithing is a hard topic to teach without spiritual understanding since we have many high profile elite preachers teaching on the same with books written of great hoped promises and condemnation on the same for those who do not tithe, Ephesians , Thessalonians After psych eval, returned to ministry in WY.

By not accepting any of the goods for himself, Abram was putting all his faith in God to provide for him rather than man. Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abram acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abram, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. Had Abram not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom. Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth.

That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today.

Jonbenet Ramsey

By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe. I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God.

After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God. Then he appoints himself to receive the tithe!!! I have seen you debate frequently and in great detail why the Tithe is valid, but I have not seen you make a case against Tithing. I wonder why you make this claim, but continue to argue for Tithing, while dismissing what everyone else says as an attack against your spirituality.

You display no respect for anyone, yet expect everyone to not only respect you, but agree with you. Gary, I have been considering your comments carefully these many hours and wanted to deal with them in a thorough manner. I will try to follow your reasoning here. You are dealing with only two of many points I raised. They do tie together as they were addressed in previous posts, even though the original article dealt only with tithing.

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I am grateful someone is seeking to understand tithing from the scriptures that directly address it and not importing unrelated scriptures from other places. I have not had your experiences. My pastors have always been underpaid, over worked, underappreciated, godly men. This is not meant as a pat answer. OK As far as your line of thinking is concerned. We can both open up the same passages and work through them. We can both agree Abraham and Melchizedek were real people. That this is the first time the tithe is mentioned in the bible.

That this incident occurred before the ten commandments, circumcision, instructions for the formal sacrifices. The question you brought up about ownership is important though. How could Melchizedek, as priest of the Most High God, receive stolen property? It has to be that the goods Abraham gave really were his to give.

Otherwise God would be violating His own law. Who was Abraham giving the tithe to? The scriptures refer to Melchizedek three times as priest of God Most High. The repetition is striking. That same word Jehovah is used in his call in Genesis Jehovah is the special covenant name God uses with His people. There is no doubt as to Who gave the deliverance and Who Melchizedek represents.

Was Abraham giving this tithe as an act of worship in gratitude to God for a massive deliverance, or did King Melchizedek demand it from him? It was freely given. Melchizedek gave the bread and wine and blessings first. Abraham responded. Melchizedek gave glory to God for the victory, why should Abraham give glory to a man, even though he is a king? So Abraham gave the tithe to God via His priest in unforced worship. Abraham is a positive example of tithing. About the priesthood. You make two points. Let me see if this is what you mean.

You are saying because we are a royal priesthood and have taken over the office of priest, we do not tithe because Old Testament priests did not tithe. Is that what those verses mean in context though? That we can tell others about how God brought us out of darkness into light? We are to offer up spiritual sacrifices. What exactly are they? A reference to Hebrews13 may be helpful here. This is the cluster mentioned. And the priest, the son of Aaron, shall be with the Levites when the Levites receive tithes, and the Levites shall bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse.

For the sons of Israel and the sons of Levi shall bring the contribution of the grain, the new wine and the oil, to the chambers; there are the utensils of the sanctuary, the priests who are ministering, the gatekeepers, and the singers. Thus we will not neglect the house of our God. And your offering shall be reckoned to you as the grain from the threshing floor or the full produce from the wine vat.

Out of all your gifts you shall present every offering due to the LORD, from all the best of them, the sacred part from them. And you may eat it anywhere, you and your households, for it is your compensation in return for your service in the tent of meeting. And you shall bear no sin by reason of it, when you have offered the best of it.

But you shall not profane the sacred gifts of the sons of Israel, lest you die. Levites tithe. The specific offerings given to the priests— guilt, sin, peace, ordination are all divided in some way. A holy portion is burnt up before God and the rest of the offering is for Aaron and his sons. The first fruits given to Aaron are not used for a burnt offering but seem to be given totally to him.

When the Levites were given cities within Israel, they were only given pasture lands around them. Six cities out of the total number were open for the manslayer to flee to, so they were not really totally their own. The bread of the presence is for the priests who minister in the temple and is eaten after it is set out before the Lord. Even so, we see an example of what that means in merciful practice. When David came to the temple and was hungry, the priest gave him the bread of the presence.

Christ commended him for it. One thing has been helpful in our discussion, is it has forced me to examine scripture even more, and has convinced me even more of my own position. Wes, I have not declared you an unbeliever as you have done so freely to others, or taken the role of final authority in the church. I have not used violent language towards you because of your beliefs. It is up to you to do the spade work and defend your own position from scripture.

I have dealt with you and Gary with kindness and consistancy. You, yourself, have not responded in like kind. You have made no effort to use biblical reasoning but have dismissed anything counter to your position without bible proof. You have written quickly with out careful deliberation. Giving him the respect I had hoped you would give any professing believer.

You need to spend more time thinking and praying before shooting back. One thing you need to know. I will not be bullied into a position if I am convinced the scripture does not teach it. God have mercy. All I did was attempt to refute you, as you have done with everyone here. Then you say you respect others but that no one respects you.

Then you said that you could make a case for or against Tithing. I asked you to make a case against Tithing, yet you have not done so. You said you respect others but that no one has respected you. But you have done the opposite. I again ask you what you ask of others: To think and pray about your beliefs before you start discussing the issues.

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And to at least consider what others post, even if you do not agree with them. I have given a great deal of thought and prayer to the issue of Tithing. I used to believe what the Pastors taught. I used to do what they told me to do, believing that they were right. If you would like to discuss the issue of Tithing with me, I will gladly do so.

If you say something I disagree with, I will tell you so and why. But I will not be like you, and disregard everything you say simply because I disagree. It is not violent or disrespectful to point out religious error, and I do not feel that any of the men here have been violent with their answers. I think that if I were so vehemently in favor of something like tithing, and then found out I was wrong, I would be grateful for being set straight. We are to give as we have prospered. I thought I was supposed to abstain from eating pork hard here in the South. So, I found a wonderful preacher who did Bible lessons with us for a long time.

He was so thorough with the Bible from beginning to end, and I will always be grateful for God sending him to us. It was because of him that I finally obeyed the Gospel. No one here is trying to hurt your feelings, yet it may hurt to find out the truth. I appreciate the love and respect you feel for God. Just remember, He wants good, righteous men to teach us the truth. Where did I ever say that? You made an assumption, as you do with the scriptures, that is not correct. Facts: I was a member of a church where the pastor asked me if I would teach a Sunday School class on finances since I have a strong background in accounting and taxation.

I agreed. At that time, I had not deeply research the topic of tithing. While preparing to teach that class, I started doing an in-dept study of the tithe. It was then that I discovered everything I had been taught about tithing was incorrect. I went back to my pastor who disagreed with me, but he said he would do his own research. Weeks later, that pastor stopped teaching tithing as he determined, as I did, that is was not appropriate in the Christian Church.

That study lead me to my own financial ministry. You make the assumption that Abram gave the tenth freely. The scriptures do not say that Abram gave freely, they only say he gave. The scriptures do not tell us WHY Abram gave. While you make the assumption that he gave freely, I use historical data to try and find the answer as to why he gave. You ignore that there would have been laws and customs during that time because they are not stated in the scriptures, and I understand that. But then you go and decide, on your own, WHY Abram gave.

Because Abram gave a tenth of the spoils to Melchizedek, you again make the assumption that the spoils belonged to Abram; otherwise, he gave stolen property. But if the spoils actually belonged to the Abram, how could the King have said such a thing? Biblical historians give us an answer that makes sense.

Abram was following the laws and customs of the times. No where in the scriptures does it say the spoils belonged to Abram. If you want to stick to the scriptures, do so. I never said that priests could keep all of the tithe they received. I have made it clear that the New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. Being Spirit led, I find myself giving far, far more than a mere tenth of my income. But it is done according to my heart, and according to my means. And no where in the scriptures does it say when we give to the church we are giving to God.

But Jesus did say when we help the poor or needy we are helping him. If someone wishes to give a tenth of their income to the church I am all for it. But I am against any pastor teaching tithing as being a requirement of God today, or even using ten percent as a so-called guideline. Neither is correct. Abram had income, but there is no scripture to show he ever gave a tenth of any of it. I assumed we could have a civil discussion on this forum.

I was wrong. You are a contentious man and this discussion is over. He was merely clarifying some of the misunderstandings between you two. I thought we were having a civil discussion. I merely teach the truth and point out false teachings. In my ministry, I have had meetings with many pastors, in person, and have found that most never studied the topic of tithing, but rather are merely teaching what they were taught. Most of those who listen to me, and then do their own study, stopped teaching tithing. That is very sad. I believe that God has called me to preach this topic because of my strong background in accounting and taxation.

The Holy Spirit has guided me throughout my studies. There are pastors and Bible Study Classes around the world using my material to teach from. I charge nothing when I teach. My book is FREE to everyone that wants to download it. I accept NO free-will gifts. God has already blessed me beyond my dreams. They spend time looking for ways to justify teaching tithing.

My, my, my! This tithing study has been a hot topic for the past months. I was one of the first to respond to this topic. And I have been just reading all the responses: those who are for or against it. I used to be for tithing until It was revealed to me by the Spirit that tithing was part of the old covenant and Jesus nor any of the early apostles ANYWHERE in the new testament commanded that tithing to a church be the standard and practice. But tithing is mysteriously missing. Neither is scriptural, yet those and others are still taught, regardless of what our only guide the Bible says.

Almost all the television preachers teach tithing; to themselves, of course. Some teach that the more you give to them, the more you will prosper. I only pray when I give my offering that it be used to spread the Gospel. Thank you so much for that wonderful study have got your site today but i will be studying it may God give you more thoughts and teach the world.

Those of us who stopped Tithing have done so not out of greed, selfishness, or lack of faith. We wanted a closer relationship with God, and stopped Tithing as a result of spiritual growth. To grow, we knew we needed to change.

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We faced the disturbing thought that our beliefs were wrong in some ways and needed Godly correction. We had the courage to re-examine Scripture and asked God to teach us anew. When we were shown that we were wrong, we bravely admitted it, carried through with our new beliefs, and now share these beliefs with others. Finances are extremely tight for me. However, after reading this, I am intrigued and to get back on my feet am going to cut the amount I give approximately in half.

We will see what happens. Its amazing. Why stop now? God is not going to change course, so why should you? This is powerful stuff and the fact that it is not one sided makes it even more interesting to us new converts. The truth is, it has always worried me, especially here in Africa where we see some pastors prospering while the flock lives in poverty.

Twisting of scriptures for personal gain have reached unprecedented heights and therefore this debate is most welcome. This is an issue that at times has put me in a angry mood more than once…. Some of the biggest cons in Christendom today teach the tithe…. And he is not the only one that does this…. Churches that follow this doctrine I believe are not so much interested in saving souls and solely their savings….. Get clue all you grace robbers! I have often questioned whether titheing is applicable for the New Testament Church.

Yes, I love God, follow Jesus and give all that I have, myself, time etc. I am a tither because it has been drilled that you must do it or you will not be blessed, there was a part of our Church litany that said you will be cursed with a curse if you do not tithe. First of all Jesus came and we are no longer under a curse. There are those in the Church who look at who is tithing and how you are treated is based on how much you tithe and whether or not you tithe. Yet, for those who tithe, the Church does not want to assist you if you have a difficult time,.

Second, I tithe, pray and fast and do so in spite of the fact that my family has been struggling for years, holding on for dear life. For example by the time I tithed from my last paycheck, paid my utility bill, gas for my car and food, there was literally nothing left. I will need to borrow to have gas after this week to make it to my next pay day.

Yes, I am thankful to be able to pay those things, but to have to borrow for gas after this week, is very hard. I am so happy I came across this site. It has been a blessing to me. I have been upset about the constant begging and gimmicks paintings, books, prayer cloths, et. I am a tither and in addition, give to other ministries and help feed the poor by supporting financially the feeding and clothing programs in my church as well as other organizations as well.

I do not, however, believe in the methods used at my church each Sunday. I have learned a lot by reading the different comments presented on this site. Thank you for so much and I intend to do more studying on my own. However, I have a question. I was particularly disturbed this past Sunday when the pastor announced that he had a banquet for the top givers in the church. I, of course, immediately thought about the widow who gave the two mites all she had , and how Jesus recognized her above the rich who gave more because she gave all that she had.

Joyce, I would stay far away from that ministry as possible. How can you proclaim to be a man of God and be respective of persons. No true heart of God exists in that.

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One cannot possibly ever understand how Jesus viewed giving if one does live according to the Spirit by instead according to the current social, economic, theological, world view. It has always been about motive not the amount nor a ritual. The law is the school master to teach. Set a standard. If I let the Spirit give revelation rather than using the natural man to explain or interpret spiritual issues, there is no private interpretation of the living Word that does not change, not one jot or tittle. Tithing was under and is under the law with a curse for Christians seeking salvation under the law, Galatians , Malachi Saved Christians by grace lead by the Holy Spirit are ministers of the new testament with exceeding glory who have been redeemed from the curse of the law to adoptions of sons and are not under the law, Galatians , Galatians,2 Corinthians Salvation under the law one attains it at last breath on earth having done all that pertains to the law which is hard for one to accomplish.

Even the tithe which was given by Abraham was under the law of sin and death from the fall of Adam and Eve. Those who cheat would like to deceive Christians that tithe was before the law but before which law. When Christ was born He was given gifts and not tithes Mathew Salvation under spiritual law of love by grace is freely given and attained, Ephesians -9, Ephesians Under Leviticus priesthood tithes were given for the tribe of Levi and tithe of tithe to the high Priest for they shared no land apart from the walled towns they were allocated to stay in for their continuous sacrifice to God, Numbers Widows, strangers ,fatherless and orphans benefited from tithes and offerings given to Levites, Deuteronomy In Christianity widows were asked to be catered by close brethren to ease burden to the Church.

There were also tithes of different kinds in Israel. There was also a tithe where a family had to eat all before the Lord, Deutreronomy In Christ Jesus we are saved by grace and not by works of law ,Galatians ,Acts , Galatians 4: , Galatians, Galatians Leviticus priesthood under the law with tithes, death, discontinuity and its acceptance under glory of law done away in Christ and the holy priesthood of Christ without tithes, death and discontinuity with exceeding glory under which Christians are in salvation being a Holy nation and loyal Priests to preach to the world GOD being their Father in new covenant ministry, 2 Corinthians, 2Peter Christ is from the tribe of Juda without priesthood and he never sent the Levites Priests to preach to the world.

Christ is the end of the law of sin and death which was against us having crucified it on the cross of Calvary Roman , Roman,Roman Christ came to accomplish all the requirements of the law and became the Lord of the law. Christ crucified on the Cross the law of sin and death which was against us. Christ then removed the first covenant and established the better Second Covenant mediated BY Him upon established better promises for us.

All Apostles of Christ never asked for tithes. Even Judas never asked for tithes. Christ Himself never asked for tithes. In new testament comments are made on tithing under law which some want to use to justify tithing. Leviticus priesthood is totally left out. In the same Spirit Paul referred law as was our and not law is our school master. To justify oneself us paying tithes under the law one has to give tithes to all saved Christians in the Church for we are loyal priests in Christ Jesus presenting our bodies as living sacrifice.

But God does not have pleasure for Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings for sin neither had pleasure therein, which are offered under the law. Pastors and priests have done away with offering ,sacrifices and burnt offerings for sins under the law and have been left comfortably with offering offered under law deceptively.

A fountain cannot produce sweet and bitter water the same time. James We are subjected to spiritual law of life in Christ Jesus and ought to have the spiritual understanding of the Word of God. Roman , Colossians As God has blessed us in common inheritance of the saints and we should give sacrificially as we have purposed in our hearts in liberty and in love, Galatians , 2Corinthians 9;, Galatians , Hebrew,Hebrew Christ taught spiritual giving to God and to our parents, Luke ,Matthew Paul also taught the same.

Those under the law are under curse. Are they telling Christians curses under law are blessings for them or they have powers to remove curses when Christians tithe to them? They have directed Christians to deceptive ways of curses for their own benefits and not blessings. The bounty of terror of deceptive greediness is professionally tactically presented as blessing based on salvation under their yard stick of tithes. In willful deception by calling themselves the Levites of today who persecuted Christians and plunder Christians pockets today they are able to demand to be given tithes.

Levites priests and elders never gave a helping hand to Christians. Christ did not leave His Church under Leviticus Priesthood. When we take the Word of God out of its content and contest ,we have contempt for the Word of God. Matthew We can teach doctrine of men instead of doctrines of God.